Fraud investigation stopped by Saudi's

[budda]

Its nice to know that a serious fraud office investigation can be stopped by a foreign government isnt it.

In the interests of national security apparently, more like the BAE contract which they threatened to cut.

[Flashman's Ghost]

Stupid thing to investigate anyway. If we have to throw a few quid at corrupt Saudi princes to make billions for this country and safeguard thousands of jobs I'm all for it.

Though good to see our 'allies' France were already sniffing around Saudi Arabia like a dog on heat.

[Kermit]

I'd agree with flashman, sometimes it is necessary to turn a bit of a blind eye to it in order to safeguard financial interests.

Rather than getting angry about this, people should be getting angry about Export Credit Guarantee, whereby if some tinpot African dictator doesn't pay for his guns and planes we get to pay for instead.

[Disillusioned]

Good news. If the investigation had went ahead our relations with Saudi Arabia could have been severely damaged. Continuing the investigation would have handed the contract to the French and created thousands of French jobs - at the expense of thousands of BAE jobs in Britain. There shouldn't have been an investigation in the first place. It's good to have principles and laws on this sort of thing but when British firms are doing business with the likes of the Saudis we have to turn a blind eye - the alternative is to ruin the likes of BAE and give rival foreign firms a massive boost.

[budda]

Originally Posted by Flashman's Ghost

Stupid thing to investigate anyway.

I'd agree with that, the only way to ever get contracts with the Saudi's is to bribe them.

[budda]

Originally Posted by Kermit

Rather than getting angry about this, people should be getting angry about Export Credit Guarantee, whereby if some tinpot African dictator doesn't pay for his guns and planes we get to pay for instead.

Didnt we effectively give loads of weapons to Saddam free through that system?

[Aladdin]

Poor old BAE, always one failed contract away from having to dismiss "thousands of jobs". You have to wonder how they surive, being in such precarious situation...

What a load of bollocks.

So much for ethical foreign policy. So much for principles.

One day it might even be the case that British soldiers are killed with British-made warplanes owned by a corrupt theocratic regime. An irony that will not be lost on them.

But no matter. Money talks, as always.

[Kermit]

Originally Posted by budda

Didnt we effectively give loads of weapons to Saddam free through that system?

Basically, yeah.

And we'll end up giving these weapons to people like Adi Amin for nothing, too, if we write off all this African debt- most of it is though ECGD.

A loss of a £6bn order would threaten any company, Aladdin, and as Saudi Arabia are not a threat to the UK I don't see the issue.

I find it strange how some incentives are fine and others are not. Bribery talks in bug business, and if it brings jobs to the UK then I'm all for it.

[Aladdin]

Since BAE wasn't planning, to the best of my knowledge, to make thousands of workers redundant before this contract came to be, the subsequential loss wouldn't have had any effect.

BAE was doing nicely before this contract was agreed. The deal came as an unexpected bonus. And no jobs would have been lost if the deal had been called off later. Though aparently all companies have to do is to utter the magical words "thousands of jobs will be safeguarded by this deal" for people to accept it without questions or moral objections.

Regarding bribes to win deals, I thought capitalists took great pride in their system and saw fair play and competition between companies as a fundamental part of it. Dodgy deals, illegal transactions and bribes don't look like something to be proud of to me.

To cap it all this is not just any commercial venture but a weapons deals. Arms dealing is a rather unpleasant business at the best of times, and the last thing we need is to make it worse by selling them to nasty regimes through dodgy deals.

But what's new anyway? Those British chaps who got accused of planting bombs by the Saudis and subjected to torture had the pleasure of being electrocuted with British-made batons. Nice to see the government continues to lower its trousers and bend over in front of unpleasant dictatorships for the sake of a quick buck.

[Flashman's Ghost]

Originally Posted by Aladdin

Poor old BAE, always one failed contract away from having to dismiss "thousands of jobs". You have to wonder how they surive, being in such precarious situation...

What a load of bollocks.

So much for ethical foreign policy. So much for principles.

One day it might even be the case that British soldiers are killed with British-made warplanes owned by a corrupt theocratic regime. An irony that will not be lost on them.

But no matter. Money talks, as always.

Can you eat principles?

But as an aside selling British weapons to Saudi means we're less likely to be killed by them than if the French did. We after all know the weaknesses of our own weapons pretty well and can stop spares being sold to replace the wear and tear and battle damage. An advantage we don't have if it French weaponary...

[Aladdin]

"Can I eat principles?" I've never tried. But sure as hell I could eat aplenty for thousands of years with the profits BAE generates in a single day.

Let's not pretend the life of BAE and the jobs of thousands of workers depended on this deal. It so clearly didn't.

BAE would say otherwise of course. At the end of the day that is what every company always claims in such cases, regardless of the circumstances.

[Iknowyourmum]

If bribary's not done in the UK and its not UK officials taking money than I dont see the problem.

In fact couldnt it be construed as racist, that we dont trust these forign countries, that arnt run by white people we need to investigate them as their not compitant to run their own affairs.

I bet if this was a so called bribe to an French official for a contract and Jaques Chiraq and the french parliment said they dont want an investigation, their would be no complaints about it being dropped.

Its not our business to go round fixing other countries, we tried that in Iraq and its not working, if they want to have their system that way we shouldnt be concerned.

[Bullseye]

surely BAE are structured to work around set contracts made and planned years in advance, only someone very very naive of how business negotiations work and has no experience what so ever, would say that One contract means nothing to a big company like BAE.

It is actually a good thing in this case to turn a blind eye to some thing that is quite minute a worry to safegaurd thousand of jobs. I am sure anyone with any experience in business would agree as far as jobs and money matters are concerned.

[I'm With Stupid]

Originally Posted by Iknowyourmum

In fact couldnt it be construed as racist, that we dont trust these forign countries, that arnt run by white people we need to investigate them as their not compitant to run their own affairs.

It's now racist to point out gross human rights violations and say that you want nothing to do with regimes that carry them out?

Originally Posted by Iknowyourmum

Its not our business to go round fixing other countries, we tried that in Iraq and its not working, if they want to have their system that way we shouldnt be concerned.

Does that mean that we have to support them?

[Toadborg]

Why do people want to give money to BAE workers?

Misplaced patriotism?

If you beleive the key to the success of this country is economic success then government subsidisies are not the way to such success.

'Right-wing' people who supposedly support free markets seem to get particularly confused on this point......