Tory tax cuts

[budda]

Am I being cynical or are the Tories pissing off their core voters on purpose?

They know that Tory voters will always vote Tory, so what they want to do is apeal to Labour voters and slightly piss off their core vote.

Yet, this (to me) blatent policy seems to have been noticed by any of the media.

[Fiend_85]

Well, I know it's standard tory policy to cut taxes, but perhaps they've realised that they can't afford to?

[Disillusioned]

If the Conservatives do not aim to cut taxes and slash public spending by eradicating waste in the public sector and reducing abuse in the welfare system there is little point to the Conservative Party. And if Cameron forgets the fact that many on the right of the party supported him over David Davis (and that is mirrored among Conservative MPs) he will not be leader for much longer.

[Man Of Kent]

1979 Thatcher raised taves after election, so I don't know why the Tory "faithful" believe that tax cuts should always be promised immediately after any win.

It wasn't until the mid 80s that she started to slash direct taxation.

[Aladdin]

Originally Posted by Disillusioned

If the Conservatives do not aim to cut taxes and slash public spending by eradicating waste in the public sector and reducing abuse in the welfare system there is little point to the Conservative Party. And if Cameron forgets the fact that many on the right of the party supported him over David Davis (and that is mirrored among Conservative MPs) he will not be leader for much longer.

But Cameron hasn't said he doesn't want to lower taxes. On the contrary. He's indicated he would like to, but if the conditions are right and at the right time, and as such he won't promise anything until then.

That makes a lot more sense than just saying 'let's cut tax' without even stopping to think how much to cut, whether it is needed and what impact would have on the country and its public services.

But at the heart of this lies a clash of two Tory factions: the Right of the party, which faithful to its own ways remain obsessed with tax cuts on principle with the ultimate goal of rewarding themselves and the hell with anyone else. And (on paper at least) a more centre-orientated faction that recognise the need to mantain and finance public services and welfare and that recognise that there is such thing as society and that single mothers are not evil spongers to be crucified in public like the Evil Witch believes.

[CheeseOnToast]

I agree, it makes more sense than to just blatantly bullshit and say yep I want to cut them, without getting in the details of why and how.

[budda]

Originally Posted by Disillusioned

If the Conservatives do not aim to cut taxes and slash public spending by eradicating waste in the public sector and reducing abuse in the welfare system there is little point to the Conservative Party. And if Cameron forgets the fact that many on the right of the party supported him over David Davis (and that is mirrored among Conservative MPs) he will not be leader for much longer.

But everyone knows that their shaddow chancellor is about as right wing economically you can get, he's just keeping his mouth shut at the moment because he knows they wont get elected other wise.

It just seems strange to me that both Tory MP's and the Media dont seem to notice its a blatent ploy, fake left then run right.

[Disillusioned]

Originally Posted by budda

It just seems strange to me that both Tory MP's and the Media dont seem to notice its a blatent ploy, fake left then run right.

Perhaps - but then prior to '97 the Labour grassroots all expected Blair to lurch back to the left when Labour got into power...

Since many Conservatives believe that David Cameron could still get elected on a fairly traditionally conservative platform some people are tired of this reinvention bullshit. At the last election the Conservatives got more votes in England than Labour, with Brown being relatively unpopular in England and this Labour govt increasingly unpopular Cameron could still win on a low taxes/tough on crime/eurosceptic platform.

[budda]

Originally Posted by Disillusioned

Perhaps - but then prior to '97 the Labour grassroots all expected Blair to lurch back to the left when Labour got into power...

Since many Conservatives believe that David Cameron could still get elected on a fairly traditionally conservative platform some people are tired of this reinvention bullshit. At the last election the Conservatives got more votes in England than Labour, with Brown being relatively unpopular in England and this Labour govt increasingly unpopular Cameron could still win on a low taxes/tough on crime/eurosceptic platform.

Fair point, but he know's full well that its not about getting more votes, its about getting more votes in the marginals, the rest of us might as well stay at home.

[Flashman's Ghost]

Originally Posted by budda

But everyone knows that their shaddow chancellor is about as right wing economically you can get, he's just keeping his mouth shut at the moment because he knows they wont get elected other wise.

It just seems strange to me that both Tory MP's and the Media dont seem to notice its a blatent ploy, fake left then run right.

I suspect more people think that you let on, but its hard for Labour to attack on it ('those Tory swine will reduce your taxes when they get in' isn't a real vote winner). Labour did try to hit Cameron with only being green on the outside - but the Chameleon advert backfired as it was too cute.

Its also hard to proove and you'd be sticking your neck out and be laughed out of court if you said Cameron was some sort of right wing extremist - Cameron has always been on the left of the Tory party, so its quite possible to believe that he does want to occupy the centre ground. Even Green issues, which are now wrongly seen as a left-wing issue, used to be traditionally right-wing, as it was believed that ecological measures would hurt jobs in traditional heavy engineering the most and many left-wingers weren't happy with that.

[Teh_Gerbil]

Originally Posted by budda

Am I being cynical or are the Tories pissing off their core voters on purpose?

They know that Tory voters will always vote Tory, so what they want to do is apeal to Labour voters and slightly piss off their core vote.

Yet, this (to me) blatent policy seems to have been noticed by any of the media.

Yep.

Camerons is a twat. He'll lose alot of support over this.

[Bullseye]

I think Cameron and his loyal men have it right. Thatcher herself only believed in Tax cuts if they didnt act to the detriment of the economy, remember Thatcher was all about a strong Britain and strong economy in her heart, it was when she lost her mind towards the end she lost sight of her goals.

I think Cameron needs to stay away from the party faithful, the tax cut champions and use his "few good men" in the party to change it to a place where Labour are on the back foot and the Conservatives are drawing the dividing lines like it once was. Since Blair took over the leadership it has been all labour drawing the dividing lines and keeping the Torries on the back foot. Tax cuts dont win elections...as shown by Hague and Howard and especially IDS who never ever got to an election battle.

[Aladdin]

For anyone who doesn't want the Tories to win the next election, the sound John Redwood or Norman Tebbit addressing fringe meetings and speaking of the "morality" of cutting taxes is music to their ears.

The more say such people have in the Tory Party, the less chance it'll have of ever gaining power, Labour debacles or not.

[Disillusioned]

Originally Posted by Aladdin

For anyone who doesn't want the Tories to win the next election, the sound John Redwood or Norman Tebbit addressing fringe meetings and speaking of the "morality" of cutting taxes is music to their ears.

Taxation in some form is a necessary evil but excessive taxation that takes money away from hardworking Britons to prop up bureaucrats in the Civil Service, French farmers, welfare spongers and more bureaucrats in Brussels is immoral. There is nothing moral about punishing hard work by purging people of 30-40% of their earnings.

Originally Posted by Aladdin

The more say such people have in the Tory Party, the less chance it'll have of ever gaining power, Labour debacles or not.

Redwood and Tebbit have influence amongst the grassroots but little direct influence on David Cameron. But, the grassroots and mass opinion will have some influence and there is the fact that millions of people want tax cuts. At some point after getting elected the Conservatives need to ruthlessly reduce waste to allow for significant tax cuts. The broad aim should be for tax rates in Britain to be comparable with the US, rather than with Europe as is presently the case.

[budda]

Originally Posted by Disillusioned

The broad aim should be for tax rates in Britain to be comparable with the US, rather than with Europe as is presently the case.

Does that mean we get the great public services they have there as well?